See, I didn't read Graham's comments as an attack on Ming. I read them as part of the agenda Ming is setting out, promoting change within the party. Everything he said is true, everything he said is needed. Yes, the Lib Dems as a party have at times done the all things to all people trick, and it was one of the things that lost my involvement for some time. They're now, it seems, heading int he direction that's needed; to be a properly liberal party in the tradition of JS Mill et al. That makes them a party of the individual and of the left, rejecting state collectivism and authoritarian moralism. If the Tories keep on the liberal track, then British politics can be very interesting indeed. (Thx for link BTW, you might want to delete the Not Little England one though, that ste won't be updated other than as links to V-Tx from now on, unless Wordpress goes down...